I Thought Rest Was Betrayal | Vanessa Parra
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Description
What if the drive to be resilient is really a lifelong survival mode, and rest feels more like betrayal than healing?
This story follows Vanessa, a Latina migrant and writer, as she navigates migration from Colombia to Montreal, wrestling with safety, guilt, and the unseen weight of beginning again. Around Shannon’s table, conversation opens up about what it means to seek belonging when your body won’t let its guard down, and how little moments of rest and connection can look holy—especially when rest feels out of reach.
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Transcript
But when you're going through migration, it's
Speaker:totally different. Like, your brain is on fire. I
Speaker:don't know why. So I really need
Speaker:to build community, but my body doesn't feel safe.
Speaker:What if the thing you call resilience is actually survival?
Speaker:What if the guilt you feel for slowing down isn't humility, but
Speaker:something heavier. I'm Johan Heinrichs, producer of Neighborly
Speaker:Podcast. Today, Shannon sits down with Vanessa,
Speaker:a Latina migrant, writer, and member of the trauma care
Speaker:team here at Care Impact, now living in Montreal.
Speaker:Vanessa came to Canada looking for safety, but what she didn't
Speaker:expect was how long it would take to actually feel at rest.
Speaker:Even surrounded by welcome and opportunity, her mind felt
Speaker:on fire, always adjusting, always bracing.
Speaker:Out of that tension came a question that reshaped her faith:
Speaker:Is rest weakness, or is it holy?
Speaker:Vanessa now helps create spaces where migrants can pause,
Speaker:grieve, celebrate, and heal together. She calls
Speaker:them safe havens. And she carries a striking image with
her:a dark forest filling with fireflies,
her:small lights that signal restoration, an image
her:which then turned into a book that she wrote. If you've ever
her:struggled to slow down without feeling guilty, this conversation
her:may feel closer than you expect. Let's join Shannon and
her:Vanessa at the table.
her:Vanessa, hi. Thank you so much for coming on the
her:podcast. I can't wait to hear more about
her:all the things that you're going to share. Some of the things I already know,
her:but just for our listeners to hear and be inspired by
her:the grassroots community building you're doing and just
her:sharing your own story and all of those different things, just thank
her:you for being here. Thank you, Shannon. Yeah, of course. Well, we
her:always start off with our signature icebreaker question: who is
her:a neighbor growing up that you will never forget?
her:Well, I won't pick just one person, but just the whole
her:kids in my neighborhood. I grew up in Colombia,
her:which many people know is not the safest
her:place to be, but I was blessed to live
her:in kind of like a gated apartment
her:community. So I had the freedom of
her:just going out, play with other kids, freely
her:climbing trees, riding bikes, and I didn't
her:understand back then, but now I can see how free I was
her:and not being scared of being robbed or anything else. I was
her:just kids going around playing by themselves. That's so
her:good. That's like just a picture of, of childhood
her:and like how we want it to be for kids. I love that you didn't
her:feel that sense of fear at all. You could just be free.
her:Yeah, like being safe, even though it's not the most
her:safest place to live. Right, right.
her:Yeah. Well, I'd love to hear more about just kind
her:of your journey, I guess. Where does your story with
her:community really begin? Well, there was
her:definitely a lot of community in Colombia. Like, Latin
her:people, we are a very warm and we value a
her:lot of family and unity. But I would say my
her:personal journey really began when I moved to Canada,
her:going through migration. It's a very different
her:experience for you to build a community
her:when you already have an environment like an ecosystem,
her:so that new community, it's part of your existing
her:ecosystem. But when you're going
her:through migration, it's totally
her:different. Like, your brain is on fire. You don't
her:really know why. It's not like, hey, let's meet new people
her:and build a community. Part of what I already
her:know is my brain is on fire, on
her:survival mode. I don't know why. So
her:I really need to build community, but
her:my body doesn't feel safe. Wow. Yeah. If you
her:feel comfortable sharing, what led you to move to Canada from
her:Colombia? Well, fun enough, it's about being safe
her:because Colombia, it's not
her:a, um, a safe place in many ways. Political,
her:criminal, there's a lot of things going on, but you
her:don't really understand what safe
her:means in other levels. It's a challenging
her:and yet beautiful experience. Like, I don't regret. That's
her:something hard to explain about migration. It's like, if it is so hard,
her:what, why don't you just come back? And it's like, no, because it's
her:beautiful, complex, and gives you like a
her:space for growing. Yeah, multiple things
her:can be true. It can be hard and Good and
her:challenging and growing. Yeah. Wow.
her:How old were you when you moved to Canada? Uh,
her:26, 27. Yeah. So very much an
her:adult, like have lived life and coming to
her:this place that's, that's totally new. So did you know anybody when you
her:moved here to Canada? No, but, uh, praise
her:God, when we arrived, there was a lot of people that welcomed us.
her:Yeah. So what was that like? I guess when you came in,
her:you talked about just you're not feeling safe, it's this brand new
her:environment. I guess, how did you cope with that? How
her:did you learn what you needed, that sort of thing? Yeah,
her:so I spent way more time with the Lord. That
her:was my main point, my refuge.
her:I feel lost, I need to go to you. But
her:you would think that spending more time with the Lord would give you more
her:clarity, But the more time I spent with the Lord, the more chaos
her:there was. Yeah. We moved to Ontario
her:and then moved to Montreal. Wow. Which
her:it was a big challenge that we didn't expect
her:it to be. Like, you would say it's not a big of a deal. It's
her:same country, kind of the same culture, you would say.
her:But I think for my brain, it was like, enough is enough.
her:Yeah. Yeah. Like, we're trying to build something new here,
her:and all of a sudden girl, you decided to start over
her:again, right? Yeah.
her:Well, I know you've written a book, and I guess what
her:stirred in you that, that led to writing this book,
her:The Expansion of the Fireflies? Well, it's funny because
her:I was writing a book without even knowing I was
her:writing a book. When I moved to Montreal,
her:I got baptized And something
her:that seemed very small, or at least for me at that
her:moment it didn't seem that big of a deal, uh, it became this
her:whole thing. I used to write every now and
her:then, but after I got baptized, it was like
her:notebooks and notebooks in just a few months.
her:Wow. And last year I
her:faced some health issues. So I
her:ended up spending a few months
her:alone. Wow. Like most of the day alone, writing,
her:reading, praying, like feeling the world
her:was falling apart. Yeah. But just being there with the Lord, it was
her:like pouring out, and the only
her:available umbrella was spending time alone with the Lord. So I
her:would write and write for hours, like 5, 6 hours
her:writing and writing. Without even thinking
her:about publishing any of that. I was just surviving.
her:Yeah. Just trying to stay alive. Yeah. And
her:I was just writing. And it's beautiful because during that
her:time, I remember listening to a song. It's called "Flowers."
her:And one of those moments, on my knees, crying,
her:praying, "Lord." And that's what the song says,
her:"Lord, why are you keeping me here?" And he said to
her:me, darling, I'm planting seeds, and one day you'll
her:see the flowers grow in the valley. Wow.
her:And for me, that's what the expansion of the fireflies
her:is. I would say that again. And for me, that's what the
her:expansion of the fireflies is. How God
her:can turn the brokenness, tears into something,
her:beauty into poetry. Yeah. In something that you would never
her:imagine, something better. That your plans.
her:Wow. And so is the book basically describing your
her:journey and your story, or what is kind of the heart of what
her:you talk about in this book? The heart of the book is how
her:rest is holiness and how as
her:migrants we struggle so much with rest, and
her:that comes from trauma. I don't know about you, but in our
her:culture, For you to use the word trauma, like,
her:you need to have a very good case to dare to use that
her:word. Like, there's so much stuff going on,
her:like murders and things really heavy, that for you
her:to, to say that you need to heal from something,
her:from any trauma, like, girl, you better have a
her:good reason to be complaining about life. Like, it's
her:almost like grateful to be grateful is forced.
her:Wow. Um, which being grateful is a good thing.
her:It's, it's good to be grateful every day about small and big
her:things. But when you're not allowed to grieve, to
her:complain— something can be good and hard at the
her:same time, and both can exist, right? Yeah.
her:So the book goes through it because that was my journey,
her:like why this is so hard and why It
her:is so hard for me to rest. Why do I feel so
her:guilty about rest? And how
her:resting is not for lazy people or because you're too tired.
her:Rest is about holiness. And I go through,
her:I would say, the whole Bible. I go through chapters
her:of chapters of the Bible throughout the book, like how is God
her:showing that rest is about Him.
her:It's about being shaped, about being— about creating something
her:new from your needs, from your tears. That's what
her:happens in the Psalms. It's not people
her:thinking theologically and writing something very smart. It's people
her:on their knees going through very real things,
her:and by pouring out themselves
her:into the Lord, that's when those Psalms are
her:written. Yeah, that's beautiful. And why did you
her:pick fireflies? Like, what does that image mean to you?
her:Again, it wasn't planned. Anything related to this book
her:wasn't planned, which is very funny of me because I'm
her:a person who— a very Type A person. Like, I like to plan,
her:to have everything ahead. So just to go through this process
her:where nothing was planned by me and I can take
her:any credit of it. It's not like I was
her:thinking about something very aesthetically, I don't
her:know, like something beautiful for the book. One day I had
her:a very image in my mind, like a very
her:specific image of a dark forest full
her:of fireflies. And I started to write like an
her:exercise, something to reflect about
her:collective trauma in Latin America, how
her:normalized it is, and how when you
her:start healing, it's like becoming a
her:firefly. Wow. And slowly you start to see
her:more fireflies and more and more. So that's how that
her:forest gets full of fireflies.
her:So I wrote that exercise without thinking about
her:it. It just Left it there. Later on, a
her:friend of mine from our Spanish city group in our local
her:church, she sent me a picture of that same image.
her:She didn't know, she had no idea about this or the
her:book or anything, and she sent me that picture and told
her:me, hey, Vani, Vanessa, we were gathering with the
her:city group with our Spanish group, and
her:suddenly all the space was full of fireflies
her:and we found it beautiful and we really wanted you to see it.
her:And I was like, that's exactly what the book is about. That's so cool.
her:How migrants here means frustration,
her:like, and that was it. Like, I was sure that was the name of the
her:book. And the more I researched about
her:fireflies, it was more clear to me because they're
her:small, But if you see fireflies, it means that
her:environment is getting restored. It's a sign of
her:restoration, of healing. Like something major is
her:going on here, even though this is a very small creature, which
her:you can feel like as an immigrant. Yeah. You're a minority.
her:You're not seen. You're not in your
her:familiar environment. But the fact that you're
her:here is not an accident. There's something going on here.
her:Beyond what you can see. Wow, thank you for
her:sharing that. That's such a whole— like, I can
her:visualize that, that picture, and I can't fully understand that
her:as, as coming from a very different culture and then moving here, but
her:just to imagine that experience and that picture
her:of like restoration is possible, and
her:when we're— when we begin to heal, like, it's this whole
her:transformation that happens. That's beautiful. I'm guessing this
her:is probably most of the book feels this way, but is there any specific moment
her:in the book that feels especially personal or anything that you're like,
her:oh, I loved that I got to share this, this aspect of
her:myself? Yeah, like the whole book is very
her:personal. Yeah. Not because the whole book is about my personal life.
her:I go through the scripture, in relation
her:with my life, because that is where the book came from, like going through
her:the Bible and reflecting that on my life. But there's
her:a portion of it that would probably be more personal.
her:I was reflecting on in those times
her:when Jesus died on the cross, like when you feel,
her:okay, the darkness won, this
her:is the end. Like in those times, God is
her:not improvising. That is part of His
her:plan, and He's doing something major, and He's building
her:healing promises that are going way above
her:what we would see as a victory. And I was remembering
her:something that happened many years ago that came randomly
her:during a worship time in our church.
her:I remember an aunt She was like my big
her:sister. She wasn't like much older than me. Yeah.
her:So we were raised together, and she died at a
her:very young age from a very aggressive
her:cancer, and it was quick. So you— we didn't
her:have like even time to process what was
her:going on, and I was very young at the time, and I wasn't
her:Christian, but in that moment, I remember seeing her
her:healthy, happy, kind of a vision of
her:her. I don't know how to explain it, but like, in the
her:midst of worship, I was not thinking about her, like very
her:random if you ask me, but I could see her
her:happy, healthy, and it was like a message. I
her:don't know, like something from God saying, well, what was
her:meant from the enemy to bring death
her:and grief to her, I used that bed
her:for her to know me. Yeah. She became a
her:believer in that bed. So what the enemy wanted to use
her:for death, I used it to give her eternal life,
her:and she is okay. And that was like,
her:wow, I never thought about it, but this is— and maybe it's obvious for
her:some people, but that moment for me was very special.. And
her:I shared that in the book because there are moments, especially
her:with collective trauma, when you would say, well,
her:where was God during those situations,
her:right? Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. That's so personal. But now
her:it's making me think about people that I've known who have walked
her:through especially an illness that doesn't feel fair or
her:doesn't feel like, God, why would you allow this to happen? And
her:yet to frame it as like, this is actually what he used
her:to draw her near. Wow. Yeah. And something that
her:I struggled or I'm working
her:on is praying about healing over other
her:people. And that moment, it wasn't only about my
her:family or my own story. It was about never
her:be afraid of praying over healing.
her:Because if you're my child, the answer, it's
her:always gonna be yes. It's not the question about yes or
her:no, it's when. So don't be afraid. What if I
her:pray for this person in our church and they
her:die? Yeah, like, it can be a struggle for some people like
her:me. And he was like, yeah, working that on me, like, never
her:be afraid of praying over healing. You are
her:here because I'm using my body to bring healing
her:to earth. So that's your mission here. So
her:don't, don't step away. Don't step back. Go ahead. Don't be
her:afraid. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing about your book and why you wrote
her:it and just your heart coming from this season of— it sounds
her:like pain and challenge, but something that I think
her:really will speak to people and will encourage and give that picture
her:of what healing can look like. I'd love
her:to kind of transition now to some of the community building that you're
her:doing. I know you are working on workshops and different
her:things to just help create space
her:for other Latino migrants in, in Montreal. Can you share
her:a little bit about how that came about and why you're doing
her:that? Well, uh, part of that story of the expansion of
her:the Fireflies a friend of mine from our church,
her:she was also writing a book at the same time
her:without us planning about it. Wow. And
her:when we realized about and start sharing each other,
her:it was like our books are compliments. Kind
her:of like if we sat down and say, okay, let's make a book
her:about personal healing and then a book about community healing,
her:because we need both, right? Like personal
her:healing and take that to community and how
her:those are happening at the same time. It's not like
her:you do one first and then the other one. It's everything
her:happening all at the same time. So we sat down
her:and really talked about our burden for
her:the Latino migrants community here in
her:Montreal. And when we sat together, we had that same heart of,
her:we want a safe place because we can see
her:here many immigrants facing major
her:challenges. They long for a relationship with
her:God. They long for community. They long
her:for belonging, but their brain is in— it's on
her:survival mode. So they're not the person who are just
her:gonna show up to church every Sunday. Like, they can
her:be going through any kind of crisis. Like, you need to
her:go tomorrow if your paperwork doesn't come over to your
her:house. So people is facing all kind of things that they
her:will just don't show up every week to church.
her:They— you need to come near to them and walk
her:along and help them to have that space of
her:silent rest to feel respect
her:here, to even see it and think
her:through and give names to what they're going through. Like, I don't know what's
her:going on. I need to see it. And maybe if I hear someone's story,
her:I would say, yes, that's exactly what I'm going through. Or maybe
her:not. Maybe it has something similar to what I'm going
her:through. But you can at least start thinking about it. And we wanted
her:to build that physical space as much as
her:possible for people to be together, to have a
her:consistent place to go, to have fun, but
her:also to learn, but also to have
her:silence and to take a break even from the language, you know,
her:like I don't need to be thinking in another language, another
her:social cues, we can make a joke, right, that people would
her:understand just to take a break. And feel home.
her:Mm-hmm. Yeah, to feel at home. That's huge. That's
her:huge. So do you bring that space together weekly or monthly or
her:like what does that look like? Our dream would be to make
her:it a weekly thing. Right now it's in a very
her:early stage. Okay. We are just going one step at a time
her:right now. We did a first
her:workshop last year. We're going to have one in a couple of
her:days and then we're going to start trying to do that one
her:biweekly. So we're in that, in the midst of that journey
her:ourselves. Like our own project is in that
her:growing journey that we're trying to walk along with
her:other people here in Montreal. Yeah.
her:Yeah. And I know you're in the early stages, but I guess one thing I'm
her:wondering is just in your own experiences or, or
her:in those gatherings that have already happened, what have you noticed
her:that are like the biggest needs for people? Like, what kind of needs are you
her:seeing? Yeah, I think there's a need for
her:silence. I don't know if that makes sense, uh, but just because there's
her:a lot of people that are
her:working, studying French, but then having a second job. During
her:the weekends, but then with kids, house, so they just don't
her:have a time to just stop and have
her:some silence. Silence to even
her:think about something that it's not like, I need to do this and
her:then that, this and that, and just going from A to
her:B, like having that space in between. I think that's
her:the major need right now and just
her:to hear some other stories that they can relate to, feel
her:seen. Yeah. Like there's something, someone here who knows my
her:name, knows my story. I can be here
her:being extremely open, cry, and knowing
her:that people won't see me like, oh, this poor girl. It's like
her:everyone here is on the same boat going through
her:major situations. And it's like, okay, we're, We're all in this
her:together. And that's beautiful. We, we had a, an encounter
her:last year and it was very emotional. Like people were crying
her:and being grateful of having a space like that. Wow. Kind of
her:like, why did it take you so long to start
her:doing this? Uh, but yeah, it's all part of
her:a process that we're all learning together.
her:Yeah. That I think really speaks to the resilience of
her:people. And I guess that's something I'd love to hear more about. What have you
her:learned about resilience in migrant communities and especially
her:the Latino community? Yeah, there's
her:so much resilience in Latino
her:communities in general, not only migrants. It's, there are
her:so many countries that have gone through some
her:major situations that you just need to find ways
her:to cope and keep going. However,
her:there's a lot of guilt in that. So I
her:feel guilt has been
her:like inserted to our culture. So
her:even when we're trying to be resilient, there's a lot
her:of guilt that enters and distorts what
her:we're trying to build. So I
her:feel it's important in our process of
her:resilience to work together again in community so we
her:can point it out. Hey, is this real? Is this what God
her:is saying? Or this is false guilt trying
her:to distort you from doing what, what you need to do.
her:Yeah. Right now. And when you say guilt, what do you mean by that? Like,
her:what does that look like? Yeah, so I
her:think in general rest, it's not very popular in
her:our society. Sure. Especially in our culture, for
her:you to rest is like betrayal
her:because it's not only you in survival mode, like there's a
her:whole community that depends on you. So for you to
her:rest, it means you're sacrificing the
her:security of other people. Sure. That's
her:heavy. It is. It is scary. I can only imagine
her:how then important it is for, like you said, space
her:for silence, to just be. And that, no, you don't have to—
her:people don't have to perform or,
her:you know, kind of translate into the culture, or just
her:to be and to feel like they can
her:exist and, and like let the guard down a little bit, or like just like
her:take a breath. Yeah, like even not long
her:ago, the small town where I grew up, they went
her:through major floods. So
her:literally houses covered in water. So
her:people need to use whatever they can to take out
her:water. They're not even eating because they are just trying
her:to survive, to take their belongings. So in
her:a context like that for you to say, I just need
her:time alone and being silent. No, you need
her:to be there with everyone else. Yeah. Helping
her:to keep people alive. So it's that mindset
her:that enters your brain, and that's how you relate
her:rest with being lazy, with being
her:selfish, like all these things that you don't even realize. But
her:Those experiences are what build your sense
her:of identity and your sense of
her:teamwork, but in not in the best way possible sometimes. But I
her:was saying like the guilt, like you can't stop, you need to help
her:because there's people dying. Mm-hmm.
her:Yeah. Something I'm wondering, Vanessa, is
her:through all of these experiences immigrating to Canada
her:and seeing the need for, for safe, healthy
her:community, how has your understanding of God changed
her:or just developed, I guess, over that time?
her:I would say it has
her:deepened, like changing my perspective from, of
her:rest from a Bible perspective, like going
her:through deep waters in the scripture and
her:just finding over and over again
her:rest as holiness, that for me was a
her:major shift in my relationship with God and in my point
her:of view of him. Like, if
her:he is so into rest and he
her:is good, he's holy, why am
her:I struggling so much? To see rest as something
her:good and necessary for healing.
her:Yeah, so much that you've experienced and
her:just are like, have processed. I, I really want to read your book because I
her:just, even in how you're describing like the inward journey
her:that's happening while you're experiencing something like
her:outwardly or, you know, in life, it's so
her:moving. Yeah, I would say you don't need to be Latin
her:American to enjoy the book. Yeah, it's a journey
her:through the, the gospel, so beginning to end
her:throughout the gospel, and just seeing God in
her:a different way that maybe you haven't seen him.
her:So even if you're not a migrant, I say, I would say you will
her:like the book and you will, you would find something to be
her:inspired of. And if you know someone in your community that
her:speaks Spanish, I think it will help you to relate even
her:more and just to, I don't know,
her:open space for them to share about their culture. Yeah.
her:Just speak Spanish with them if you can. Just like
her:saying hola, hi. That would mean like, oh, wow, they're
her:trying to be closer to
her:me. Those are some great practical tips. Are there any other,
her:I guess, practical things you would share with those who, like you
her:said, aren't Latino to help them maybe
her:understand what it's like to kind of step into the shoes of somebody
her:else? If you're not Latino and you know people, I think what we
her:can do as a church is
her:just see like every culture is a part of
her:the puzzle of God. Yeah, I explored this a little bit
her:in the book. Like, there's a reason why God made
her:us different. Yeah, so we need to talk to each other so
her:we can learn other faces
her:or other aspects of God.
her:For example, we Latinos are very
her:into celebration. We love to celebrate. We're
her:loud. Like, we love food in our Spanish group, our church,
her:our local church. They tend to be very surprised that we always
her:have food, and not food like snacks, no, like, I
her:mean a full meal. I love it. Like
her:it's Thanksgiving, like every week is Thanksgiving. So it's
her:like we're very into celebration.
her:And in the Bible, there's a lot of celebration. Yeah. And there's a lot
her:of holiness through celebrations. Right. Through sitting on
her:the table and sharing. Meals. That is,
her:I think so, uh, a rebelling part of God,
her:that section of our culture. At the same
her:time, here in Canada, I can see there's a lot of
her:respect for autonomy, to let everyone be
her:themselves, that maybe in our cultures is not as
her:big or relevant. And that is so important as
her:a church as well, like Yes, we're the same
her:body, but in our same body we have different people and we need to
her:respect them and understand that they have autonomy to do some
her:things different, right? That's so
her:good, Vanessa. Thank you so much for all that you've shared
her:today. I know anyone who listens is just going to be stirred,
her:I think, in their heart to think about what they've
her:experienced or what others maybe close to them have
her:and really, my prayer is that people will challenge themselves
her:to, to connect and to see the other, to see the
her:person who maybe they don't normally see, and to
her:understand how they can create a space that feels like home for others in
her:their life too. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for
her:having me. The stories we share here
her:remind us that care doesn't have to be perfect to be
her:powerful. It just has to be present. Neighborly is an initiative of
her:Care Impact, a Canadian charity equipping churches,
her:agencies, and communities with tech and training to care better
her:together. Visit careimpact.ca. Or to find out more about the
her:podcast, sponsorships, being a guest, or just dropping us a line,
her:visit neighborlypodcast.ca. We'd love to hear from you.
her:Check the show notes for the link. Or hop on our Care Impact Podcast
her:group on Facebook to join our podcast community. I'm
her:Johan. Thanks for listening and keep being the kind of neighbor someone will
her:never forget in a good
her:way. Is turning over tables,
her:breaking off chains. When I see you in
her:a stranger, I'm no longer a slave.
her:Turning
her:over tables, tearing
her:down walls, building under
her:bridges between
her:us all.
